Vancouver’s Mayor, Ken Sim, is a real Bitcoin fanatic who’s doing his half to get Vancouver’s metropolis council in addition to its residents to see what he sees in relation to Bitcoin.
And his efforts are beginning to bear fruit.
On December 11, 2024, the Vancouver City Council greenlit a motion Mayor Sim ready to start out making Vancouver a extra Bitcoin-friendly metropolis.
The movement directs metropolis employees to discover the concepts of Vancouver establishing a strategic bitcoin reserve in addition to accepting taxes and metropolis charges in bitcoin.
In my dialog with Mayor Sim, we mentioned the passing of this movement in addition to a few of his deeper philosophical ideas about Bitcoin.
We additionally touched on what Bitcoin adoption in Vancouver would appear to be in an ideal world, his personal journey down the proverbial Bitcoin rabbit gap and why Bitcoin can carry monetary hope to the residents of Vancouver at a time limit when many are struggling to make ends meet.
The Vancouver Metropolis Council just lately handed your movement to make Vancouver a extra Bitcoin-friendly metropolis.
On a private stage, although, in case you might wave a magic wand and allow no matter stage of Bitcoin adoption you see slot in Vancouver, what would that appear to be?
I’ve acquired to provide you a caveat right here. These are my very own private views. We now have a fairly unbelievable group on the Metropolis of Vancouver, they usually’ve been tasked to discover. So, it isn’t as if I can actually affect the group and inform them “You need to do that and that.”
In an ideal world, the very first thing we’d do is add to a strategic reserve. The second factor can be permitting folks to transact with bitcoin with out triggering capital positive aspects tax occasions and to just accept funds within the type of bitcoin. Tax regulation throughout not simply Canada, however within the U.S. and loads of different jurisdictions, nonetheless hasn’t caught up, so each time you transact with bitcoin, there’s a capital positive aspects tax payment, which may be very cumbersome.
The third factor is that we begin the dialog and we bust the myths round narratives like Bitcoin is unhealthy for the atmosphere. That is all hogwash, proper? Bitcoin is definitely going to assist us save the atmosphere.
Plus, it gives us with an immutable report and it truly provides to a stage of transparency we have by no means seen within the historical past of humankind. Having that included into our techniques can be nice.
You spoke about this course of of training folks about Bitcoin on Natalie Brunell’s present. You mentioned you “bathe them with love and then you definitely hit them with information.” Are you able to give an instance of what this appears to be like like?
There’s loads of resistance with Bitcoin, particularly because it pertains to its perceived results on the atmosphere. Folks hear this narrative that it is unhealthy for the atmosphere, and it is like, “Properly, wait a second…”
I am an environmentalist, and I do know that in case you power organizations throughout the planet to do stuff that they don’t seem to be incentivized to do, nothing’s going to occur. Whereas in case you incentivize them — in case you construct in a reward system — it’s superb.
So, what do we all know? Properly, we flare pure fuel as a by-product of oil manufacturing, and if we truly seize that and repurpose it for Bitcoin mining, it’s truly good for the atmosphere. Identical with capturing methane that seeps from the bottom.
Additionally, with different or inexperienced power sources, be it wind energy or solar energy, the place the economics usually do not pan out to construct these initiatives, you present somebody with a assured buyer within the type of Bitcoin miners, and the economics work and this stuff get constructed. So, it is internet constructive for the atmosphere.
There’s additionally this false narrative that nefarious issues occur with Bitcoin. That is rubbish, proper? Money is untraceable. With Bitcoin, we’re speaking about an immutable report the place you’ll be able to see each single transaction because the starting of time and you’ll catch folks on the on and off ramps.
Among the narratives are literally the exact opposite of actuality, and so we now have to counter these narratives.
Based mostly on my expertise, it is simple to show somebody one thing, whereas it is lots tougher for folks to unlearn, and we’re within the means of serving to folks unlearn what they’ve realized.
You’ve got referred to Bitcoin as the best invention in human historical past. May you broaden on that?
Our cash is damaged. Folks cannot use it to retailer their power into the longer term. We’re on this rinse and repeat cycle. In Ray Dalio’s e book The Altering World Order, he talks concerning the rise and fall of the Dutch empire, the rise and fall of the British empire, the rise and, as he places it, fall of the U.S. empire. Should you agree with Dalio’s perspective, the purpose is that the cash’s damaged.
We would not have a reserve foreign money that is ever lasted. We hold repeating historical past. However Bitcoin adjustments all that. As everyone knows, you’ll be able to’t mess with it, and you’ll’t manipulate it. It is a game-changer and once we lastly get onto the bitcoin normal — I believe it is a matter of when, not if — it’ll change how people work together with one another and the way nation states evolve.
You simply cited one in all Ray Dalio’s books, and I’ve heard you talk about the way you’ve additionally learn books like The Bitcoin Customary and Layered Cash. You’re additionally a good friend of Jeff Sales space’s. With all of the studying you’ve accomplished and the conversations you’ve had with Jeff, did you find yourself having a lightbulb second with Bitcoin or was it extra of a gradual studying course of?
Properly, I had the alternative of the lightbulb second when my son Mitchell got here as much as me and mentioned “Dad, I wish to purchase bitcoin.” And I used to be like, “You contact that shit, and I will punch you within the throat.” Clearly, I wasn’t going to do this.
Then, I began seeing extra of it and had conversations with Jeff. So, I began to look into it, learn a bunch about it and went to a few conferences. My journey was similar to loads of different folks’s. I used to be utterly in opposition to it after which I warmed as much as it and ultimately turned an evangelist.
I am unable to level to anyone level the place it was like, “Wow, there you go” and I went 180 levels the opposite approach. I do keep in mind although, I made my first $500 buy of bitcoin on November the 14th, 2020. The rationale it took me so lengthy was I needed to learn to use the app on which I purchased the bitcoin. It was all clunky — only a ache within the butt.
However I keep in mind that day, as a result of after I lastly purchased it I assumed, “Did I miss out?” I believe I purchased it at like 16 or 17 grand and it had run from like seven or eight grand the month earlier than. I used to be like, “Did I miss it?” I keep in mind Jeff saying, “No, you’re nonetheless tremendous early; we’re all nonetheless tremendous early.”
You’ve talked about how unaffordable housing in Vancouver is. Does bitcoin repair this?
Sure. Let me offer you an instance. We now have a small studio rental up in Whistler (a city north of Vancouver). Once we purchased it, it might have value 17.2 bitcoin. That is about 4 years in the past. When it comes to {dollars}, the property is up 36%, however when it comes to bitcoin, it is down one thing like 85%. As of as we speak, it prices like 3.3 bitcoin to purchase it.
By the best way, I am not giving funding recommendation. I am simply speaking a couple of theoretical, if this performs out the way it might. If sooner or later within the not so distant future, you’ll purchase a home in Vancouver for a bitcoin, what which means is you’ll be able to actually purchase a home for about US$106,000 or about CA$150,000 in case you purchased a bitcoin as we speak.
I am not telling folks to take out a mortgage to purchase bitcoin — very removed from it. Go search monetary recommendation. However in case you imagine bitcoin’s value will proceed to understand, you’ll be able to actually purchase a home for CA$150,000 within the close to future by shopping for a bitcoin proper now.
You have introduced Bitcoin, a taboo topic, into the fold as Mayor of Vancouver, and also you’ve mentioned that doing so would possibly result in your not getting re-elected. Have you ever ever thought of that the alternative is perhaps true, that possibly by embracing Bitcoin the folks of Vancouver will wish to re-elect you?
I am not too involved about that. I’ve no want to be a premier or prime minister. I am not a politician, although I am sitting on this position, which I actually honor, worth and take very significantly. However the purpose was by no means to be fashionable. The purpose was by no means to get re-elected. The purpose was to do what I believed is correct for the way forward for the Metropolis of Vancouver.
And so I could not sit again any longer and ignore this as a result of I actually imagine that this units the town up for the subsequent hundred years. Am I proper? We do not know, however we now have a fairly good feeling, and I actually imagine in it.
I believe voters, residents — it does not matter what facet of the political spectrum you sit on — are sick of politicians who do stuff simply to get re-elected. They need folks to do what they imagine is correct, and I imagine that is proper. If we do not get re-elected due to it, I can personally maintain my head up excessive and say, “You understand what? We caught to our values and we did what’s proper.” If it really works out, nice. I truly suppose it’ll work out, although.
It looks as if a progressive metropolis like Vancouver — the primary metropolis in Canada to have a Bitcoin ATM — must be in favor of Bitcoin. Nevertheless, the earlier mayor tried to ban Bitcoin ATMs within the metropolis. Was there a response from the Vancouver group when the mayor did this?
I did not observe it too carefully on the time, so I do not know. I am unable to touch upon it. What I can touch upon is we do have loads of politicians who will make coverage up based mostly on advantage signaling versus knowledge. We’re an information pushed administration, and we care concerning the future prosperity of our metropolis.
I believe the excellence right here is we select to have probably the most influence — we’re extra involved concerning the steak than the sizzle. If somebody could make an argument on why this can be a unhealthy concept based mostly on knowledge, we’ll hearken to it. We’d have it incorrect, however I can let you know nobody has been capable of assault our Bitcoin stance with knowledge.
Bitcoin could be form of troublesome to make use of technically. So, as an example, in an ideal world, possibly Bitcoin turns into authorized tender in Vancouver sooner or later, or if there’s simply larger adoption of it, do you are concerned concerning the technical difficulties related to utilizing Bitcoin? Would the Vancouver metropolis authorities ever become involved in educating its Vancouver residents about Bitcoin?
It is not one of many core companies we offer as a metropolis, so I do not see us happening the tutorial rabbit gap. We’ll go away it as much as different specialists.
If the trade makes Bitcoin easier to make use of, so many extra teams and people will simply hop on the bandwagon. And you already know it is coming as a result of there are lots of people engaged on this proper now.
I am not an skilled, however after I, after I hear about a few of the issues which might be taking place on Layer 2s and the Lightning Community, I see a future the place that is seamless. When folks go right into a Walgreens they usually purchase a sweet bar, they gained’t take into consideration how they’re paying with Bitcoin. All of the plumbing beneath will occur with out them realizing, and it’ll revolutionize the planet.
You have accomplished a handful of interviews on this subject so far. Is there something that we within the media haven’t requested you but that you simply’d like to debate or level out?
Sure, I’d wish to make a common name out and never only for the town of Vancouver. It is for each single metropolis and province and state and jurisdiction and canton, and nation on the planet.
We now have to get the schooling on the market, which remains to be a tough problem. Some folks within the media have made the remark that what we’re doing proper now’s extra advantage signaling, as a result of we now have the hope of creating this occur. That is incorrect, although.
We’d like Bitcoin supporters to start out pumping the true narrative of why bitcoin is a sound monetary asset. It is the most effective performing asset within the final 16 years on the planet. And we’re not merchants, so in case you’re not trying to day commerce, all the volatility does not matter.
We have to begin getting that narrative out, however not from me, from the group. We have to let our elected officers know this as a result of they don’t seem to be going to do something till folks hit them with knowledge and inform our legislators that they need this.
We’re doing this as a result of we imagine in it. We wish to get forward of it. We wish to arrange the town for the subsequent 100 years, and that is why we’re keen to take political threat to do that. However we want assist. So, in case your viewers may also help us push that narrative with our provincial authorities and of their jurisdictions, as nicely, that might be nice.
If folks come onboard and see how bitcoin can cut back a few of the monetary stress of their lives, do you suppose Vancouver transforms right into a pro-Bitcoin metropolis comparatively rapidly?
Sure.
I am going again to my sister-in-law, who if she watches the video she’s gonna punch me within the face. About 13 years in the past, she was afraid of getting an iPhone. She did not perceive the know-how. It was a psychological block.
Then, she jumped on the bandwagon like everybody else, as a result of all her buddies had iPhones. It is ridiculous now to suppose that individuals have been afraid of iPhones, proper?
Will Bitcoin give us hope? Completely.
I am going again to the Metropolis of Vancouver and why that is so essential. The Metropolis of Vancouver exists in the identical situations as everybody else does. Whereas folks cannot afford a house or they’re battling groceries, we now have a price range.
We now have to rent cops, firefighters, engineers, and we’re dwelling in an atmosphere the place our foreign money is getting debased and we will not enhance taxes at a fee that retains up with that. We do not wish to lower companies, and so Bitcoin offers us hope the place we are able to repair our monetary state, our steadiness sheet.
And that can truly assist us run this metropolis for the subsequent hundred years. I believe when folks perceive Bitcoin they usually begin to undertake it, they’ll have hope, as nicely, as a result of they’ll notice their buying energy goes up, which is a superb factor.
